tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8486739823102464023.post1325249894445941722..comments2024-02-02T05:06:23.569-08:00Comments on Wonky Thoughts: Carbon Isotopes in the Atmosphere -- Part IIDoug Robbinshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01898643432335324941noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8486739823102464023.post-21119411455087173062016-08-23T00:16:55.858-07:002016-08-23T00:16:55.858-07:00Another point of agreement -- the El Nino/La Nina ...Another point of agreement -- the El Nino/La Nina cycle is driving the atmosphere, not the other way around. There is a similar "wave" phenomenon in the bulk CO2 data after removing the seasonal cycle. I think I can use that to calculate the bulk volume of CO2 absorbed and released by the El Nino cycle, but I haven't done the math yet.Doug Robbinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01898643432335324941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8486739823102464023.post-62494458381192035302016-08-23T00:14:00.051-07:002016-08-23T00:14:00.051-07:00The question about carbon content of upwelling cur...The question about carbon content of upwelling currents is a good one. <br />I put some oceanic data into ArcMap, and was very surprised to see a light carbon anomaly only in the Atlantic Ocean, and only at great depth. My first thought was fossil fuels; then I realized I had just found the Greenland current, with light carbon from glacial meltwater.Doug Robbinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01898643432335324941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8486739823102464023.post-87222227783926582902016-08-23T00:10:11.477-07:002016-08-23T00:10:11.477-07:00I agree, the oceanic carbon story is more complex ...I agree, the oceanic carbon story is more complex than the atmospheric story. More data is needed to sort out what is going on in the oceans. <br />I question why you would say that "as the world warms, normally and naturally". The Milankovitch orbital cycles have been cooling the earth for several millenia now, with decreasing insolation at high latitudes. <br />We have a good explanation for the observed warming of the earth in terms of atmospheric CO2. It is just physics, and we can quantify it. If CO2 is NOT warming the earth, what is happening to the retained heat?<br />Doug Robbinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01898643432335324941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8486739823102464023.post-67490834497733619922016-08-23T00:02:43.577-07:002016-08-23T00:02:43.577-07:00Do you have another proposed source for light carb...Do you have another proposed source for light carbon, other than fossil fuels or deforestation, and can you quantify it? <br />The volumes of fossil fuel use are extremely well quantified by the markets, and independent analyses. Further, these volumes are quantitatively more than sufficient to account for the full change in the atmosphere. If man-made carbon emissions didn't change the atmosphere, what happened to the carbon???Doug Robbinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01898643432335324941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8486739823102464023.post-53807629823879245962016-08-02T00:05:05.549-07:002016-08-02T00:05:05.549-07:00While it is certainly true (Henry's Law) that ...While it is certainly true (Henry's Law) that "temperature changes in the shallow ocean should change the solubility of CO2, and the rate of exchange with the atmosphere."<br /><br />I am not so sure that "changes in the temperature of the water may differentiate the carbon isotopes being exchanged with the atmosphere."<br /><br />I cannot think of any reason this would be so - though I cannot say it is NOT true, either. Apparently there are examples of natural favoritism of one isotope over another but it has to do with living organisms, not simple exchanges at the interfaces of different phases of matter.<br /><br />The question I would like to encourage people to ponder is why this theory that the atmosphere - a weak container of heat and carbon dioxide - would be driving the ocean characteristics when the oceans are a much stronger container of heat and carbon dioxide.<br /><br />An alternate and I feel superior explanation for the observed facts is that as the world warms, normally and naturally, oceans in particular warm and this warming causes CO2 to be less soluble and so tends to drive atmospheric CO2 levels up. Furthermore, when cold, deep waters are carbon rich and well up this becomes more pronounced AND it also will tend to produce some perhaps temporary evidence of a reduction in pH of surface waters (in this case a move towards neutral, expressed for obvious reasons as "acidification" by those wishing to provoke an emotional rather than logical response) as the higher water CO2 levels drive this process of CO2 outgassing as explained.<br /><br />Are the colder, deeper waters that are upwelling carbon rich? Or not?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8486739823102464023.post-8133381573987515952016-08-01T23:56:31.322-07:002016-08-01T23:56:31.322-07:00Measuring carbon isotope ratios in the atmosphere ...Measuring carbon isotope ratios in the atmosphere apparently suggests that carbon is moving from stored sources (i.e. fossil fuels) but is not proving that the only source of such isotopes is anthropogenic and it also does not prove that the observed trend in atmospheric CO2 (slow relatively steady increase) is anthropogenic. I know some claim otherwise - their explanations are not convincing unless, apparently, you need to believe their conclusions from the start.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com